Sally Facinelli, CPBC, CFE, a franchise strategist and advisor with nearly 30 years of experience, joins host Brendon Dennewill for a candid conversation about what actually separates brands that scale sustainably from those that grow fast and fracture. Sally brings a practitioner's perspective to some of the most common and costly mistakes franchise leaders make, including moving too quickly, holding on to the wrong people too long, and confusing data collection with data-driven decision-making.
The conversation centers on a principle Sally returns to throughout: intentional pausing is not the enemy of momentum. Whether a brand is navigating a leadership transition, rolling out new technology, or rethinking its franchise support model, taking time to gain clarity before acting is what makes the difference between reactive firefighting and proactive growth. Sally and Brendon also explore how AI is beginning to shift the calculus for franchise operators, unlocking real-time visibility and revenue intelligence that simply was not accessible before, and why leadership teams that embrace it now will have a structural advantage over those that wait for the pain to force the change.
This episode is essential listening for franchise executives, multi-unit operators, and RevOps leaders who want a grounded, experience-backed framework for building organizations that scale without breaking.
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Sally Facinelli | Strategic Advisor and Franchise Operator at Salty Dawg Pet Salon + Bakery
Sally Facinelli, CFE, is a franchise strategist, operator, and executive advisor with nearly 30 years of experience spanning franchising, operations, business development, and C-level leadership. She has worked across every layer of the franchise ecosystem, including franchisors, master franchisees, franchisees, industry suppliers, and as a founder and operator of multiple companies, bringing a rare combination of boardroom strategy and boots-on-the-ground perspective to every engagement. Named one of the 2020 Top 100 Influential Women in Franchising Worldwide by Business Woman magazine, Sally is a recognized IFA speaker, facilitator, mentor, and co-chair with both the Franchise Business Network and Women's Franchise Network. She is currently completing her first book on sustainable franchise leadership and growth. |
Brendon Dennewill: Hi and welcome back. Today I'm joined by Sally Facinelli, a growth strategist, franchise operator, and advisor known for helping emerging brands scale through stronger systems, leadership, and operational alignment. With nearly 30 years of experience across franchising, business development, operations, and leadership, Sally has worked with franchisors, franchisees, founders, and multi-unit operators to build brands that grow sustainably, not just quickly.
Sally brings a practical, operator-focused perspective to growth and leadership. She's also currently working on a book that I'm very much looking forward to seeing, potentially next year. Sally, welcome to the RevOps Champions podcast.
Sally Facinelli: Thank you very much. It's a pleasure to be here.
Brendon Dennewill: Sally, you've worked with founders and franchise operators for decades. What separates brands that scale sustainably from those that grow too fast and break?
Sally Facinelli: That's a great question to start with. I think one of the biggest things you can do is pause. You first have to sit there and understand where it is you're going. Whether it's dog grooming, waxing, whatever the business is, you know where you want to go in the next two, five years, whatever your growth plans are.
Then you pause and ask: how can I get there intentionally? What steps can I take? And you look at not only the steps, but the people. You have to get the right people in there. That's where I would start.
Brendon Dennewill: I love that. I just heard another perfect example of that last week. A really successful brand out of California at 200 units. We were checking in on what they were doing to prepare their systems for scale, and the best news they could have given us was that they'd paused. They wanted to make sure they knew what they were doing before scaling to 300, 400, 500 units. I totally agree with that approach.
Sally Facinelli: Most people don't want to pause. They think they're going to lose momentum. But they won't. They're going to be able to clearly see things. You don't have to pause forever. Just take a very intentional pause.
Brendon Dennewill: And to your point, the great thing about franchising is that no matter where you are, whether you're at 100 units or 300 units, those units are still going to be operating while you're pausing. Part of what you're doing during that pause is making sure you can continue to support your existing franchisees, correct?
Sally Facinelli: Exactly. And if your plans are to change the business in some way to reach the next level, I've actually seen a couple of brands do this. One of my friends just did this radically with her business. She took a very big detour into something not entirely different from what she was already doing. It was in the same vein, but it was the next stage. She saw where the future was going in health, wellness, and beauty, and she wanted to get there. But she asked: how do I get there? Can I still support the current franchisees? Do I need to bring them up to scale? She worked through all of that before going full steam ahead.
Brendon Dennewill: That seems to be the most consistent mindset shift leaders have to make as they break through different ceilings of complexity. What got us here isn't going to get us to where we're going. And I think you touched on one of the most important points: the first thing that has to change when a brand hits one of those ceilings is potentially the leadership structure. You might not have to change the people. You might have to add someone or change roles. But that's typically where the change has to happen. Otherwise, how do you continue to elevate the organization?
Sally Facinelli: I agree. And I think a lot of people are afraid to do that within their company, for a variety of reasons. They're afraid they may not know the right people to bring in. Change in general is scary. They may have deep connections with the people they already have. But if you think you can grow through the various stages of your business with the same people, you simply won't grow.
The people who take you from zero to ten or twenty-five units are a very different type than the people who take you to 200. And the people who take you to 200 are different from those who take you to a thousand. These aren't hard and fast numbers. It depends on the business. But the point is: those are very different people.
Brendon Dennewill: I'm sure there are people listening who resonate with that. We've all been through that stage where we held on a little longer than we needed to before making a change. Sally, you've been heard to say that growth doesn't create alignment problems, it exposes them. Where do you most often see alignment break down as organizations scale?
Sally Facinelli: Scaling exposes what isn't there. It could be systems. You may not have the right systems in place, or the systems that worked at a smaller size now need to be updated for the next phase. The same goes for processes and technology. People get very comfortable with what they have and expect it to carry them to the next level. It doesn't work that way.
It also exposes people issues. Maybe you had the right people, but they're not right for the next stage. Or maybe you have the right people but they're in the wrong roles. Or it could be miscommunication and misalignment. If people don't have a shared vision, if leadership isn't clearly defining where the company is going and sharing that openly, you get a breakdown.
I talk to a lot of leaders who don't tell their teams the vision. And I always ask: why wouldn't you want your team to know the vision? Don't you want them to help you get there quickly, in a way that's scalable and sustainable? They often keep it to themselves. So I think lack of communication is a huge area of breakdown, and not just communicating, but communicating in a way people actually understand, and then confirming that they do.
Brendon Dennewill: So once we get through the leadership challenges, the next critical issue is consistency. You just touched on communication, and if there's one thing that has to be consistent in an organization, it's that. But how do you balance standardizing the things that matter most while still giving operators and teams the flexibility to adapt and innovate?
Sally Facinelli: You first have to standardize the most critical things to your business. Brand experience, for example. Depending on the type of brand you have, that has to always be standardized. Who are you as a company? What do you want your customers to experience? Think of Apple. You know exactly what you're going to get with Apple. That brand experience is purely consistent, and that's hugely important.
Customer experience is part of that. Metrics are another area that always needs standardization: what KPIs is everybody working toward? If those aren't clearly stated, people can't live up to them. And then, if you have leaders you trust, and you've communicated a shared vision, and everyone knows what they're trying to hit, now you can give them the freedom to execute. They can make tweaks, improve things, be creative, but they're all on the same page. They start there, and then they have the flexibility to move.
Brendon Dennewill: I want to come back to brand consistency for a moment. One of the things we see a lot in franchising is too much focus on franchise development and not enough on franchisee support, which includes giving franchisees the assets and tools they need to maintain brand consistency. What's going on when a brand has everything going for them but starts losing that consistency as they grow quickly?
Sally Facinelli: That's going to require a multi-tier approach. First, you have to focus on franchisee guidance and support. You can do that through FBCs, franchise business coaches. Getting boots on the ground with franchisees as much as possible is critical. The bigger you get, the harder it is. But as a leader, staying connected to what it's actually like in the trenches is really important.
You need people who are deeply bought in to your brand and genuinely want franchisees to succeed. They go out, they help, they make sure everyone stays on brand standards. And in addition to that, you need to give them tools. If you don't have visual tools or measurement tools, how do you quantify whether franchisees are actually meeting brand standards, not just having the right look and feel, but hitting revenue and growth targets? You need to give them the tools to measure that.
Brendon Dennewill: Which comes back to what you were saying about metrics and KPIs. How do you manage what you can't measure?
Sally Facinelli: Right. And part of the problem is leadership will have tools where they can see red flags pretty quickly. If you've been in the business long enough, you can see where something is heading if it's not addressed early. But if a franchisee doesn't have access to similar data, they're running blind.
Even benchmarking franchisees against each other can be powerful. They don't need to see everyone else's private details, of course, but giving them that kind of transparency matters. If they can't see it, they're operating without a compass.
Brendon Dennewill: And having that data in real time. We often hear some version of, "The franchisee was experiencing this issue six weeks ago, but we just found out about it today." In 2026, that really doesn't seem like an acceptable excuse. If something happened at the franchisee level six weeks ago, you should have that data readily available at any time.
Sally Facinelli: Especially in the world of AI. If we don't have that data in real time, it's already old. Either the problem has grown massively or something else has added to it. It's no longer relevant, and you now need new data to make changes.
Brendon Dennewill: And you can no longer make decisions on that data because it happened six weeks ago.
Brendon Dennewill: Sally, you've emphasized that people don't need more direction, they need more clarity. What does organizational clarity actually look like in practice?
Sally Facinelli: It goes back to sharing your vision. I find that people come to work, they know their job, they understand the people next to them and above them, but they know only their little area. They don't necessarily understand the full picture: what is the company trying to accomplish, who are our customers, how are we trying to help them?
Communication, to me, is at the heart of all of this. It's like Marketing 101. People tend to think: let me throw my information at you and you'll accept it. That's not how it works. You need to communicate in a way people can actually understand. And when you're at the top as a leader, if you're communicating and people are just nodding, you have a problem. They're not going to say they don't understand. Some will ask questions, which is great. But if you're not confirming they actually have the clarity you have, you need to change how you're communicating. More than one channel, more than one approach.
Brendon Dennewill: The practical advice I'm hearing is: make sure the people you're communicating with actually heard you, by asking them. Something like, "Can you tell me back what I just explained?" Not just checking for nodding heads. And that probably speaks to more than just communication. It could be a cultural issue, where people are too intimidated to question and just say yes even when they don't understand.
Sally Facinelli: Exactly. One thing I've learned to do when I'm concerned about misalignment is ask some simple questions: "What are you hearing me say? What does that mean to you?" Words mean different things to different people. The same word can land completely differently. If I ask that kind of question and they come back from a completely different direction, I know we're not on the same page, and I need to find a different way to communicate.
Brendon Dennewill: Communication is such a critical part of leadership, and yet so widely misunderstood. Leaders who get it, get it. Those who haven't figured it out yet wonder why people don't seem to be hearing them. But it's clearly essential if you want to scale.
Brendon Dennewill: Sally, you've seen firsthand how shared visibility can improve performance. What separates organizations that simply collect data from those that actually use it to drive better decisions?
Sally Facinelli: A lot of companies collect data and then don't know what to do with it. They're overloaded. They have all this data but have no idea what it's telling them. That's way more common than it should be.
If you can connect that data to a clear, shared understanding of the goal you're working toward, and if the data means the same thing every single time, so you're comparing apples to apples, then everyone understands what they're looking at and can use it consistently. That's a great start.
But you also need the right system to surface the data that actually matters to your brand. And then there's adoption. Are you using the same data points every single time so you can make meaningful comparisons? I find that people don't consistently adopt these systems unless they're held accountable to doing so.
Brendon Dennewill: We see that a lot. Having a lot of data doesn't mean you have the right data to make good decisions. And as brands move through different phases of growth, the data they need to track evolves. What you're tracking at 30 units is going to be different from what you're tracking at 300. The unit-level data may stay consistent, but at the corporate level, the metrics shift. You want to be tracking three meaningful metrics rather than 20 that don't actually drive decisions.
Sally Facinelli: It can definitely be overkill. It depends on who you're talking to. Franchisees are going to have a different set of data points entirely. And as you grow and your brand shifts, you need to shift those data points with it. Even your customer may shift. A waxing company might say their customer never changes, but actually, your customer may shift over time. You have to watch those trends and adjust accordingly.
Brendon Dennewill: You touched on this a few minutes ago, and there's going to be significant shift coming because of AI. Over the course of your career, nearly 30 years now, what is a leadership belief you've actually changed your mind about from where you started to where you are today?
Sally Facinelli: This was a big one for me. When I first started, I really thought that as a leader, I needed to understand every single detail of the business. Every little thing. I needed to have done it all myself. And then I realized: I don't need to know it all. I need to understand my business and know the key indicators that matter. But the most important thing is hiring people who are better than me at whatever I'm hiring them to do. They have the answers, usually, if they're the experts.
The second biggest thing a leader can do, right after hiring the right people, is learn to ask great questions. You don't have to have all the answers. You just have to know how to ask really great questions. You get an answer, and that leads you to a better question, and that can really guide you to where you need to go.
Brendon Dennewill: That's really good. Sally, let's shift now to AI. You've done a lot across the franchise space over the last 30 years. You're in an interesting moment, taking a bit of a break while also writing your book. And you're doing it at a fascinating time because of the impact AI is going to have on all of us, including those of us in the franchise space. What are you most excited about as you think about what's coming?
Sally Facinelli: So many people are scared about AI. They think it's going to take away their jobs. And it will take away some jobs, but it will also create new ones. What I'm most excited about is this: the franchise industry has always been far behind when it comes to technology adoption, usually about 10 years behind the curve. But this is the one time I've seen the industry just eat it up. And it's probably because we're all very entrepreneurially minded. People are adopting AI quickly.
The use cases in our world are enormous. Not only does it help us understand our businesses better, but for those of us who are, say, very ADD, it helps organize your thoughts. I'll put something into AI and say, "I know what I want to say, but help me organize my thoughts." All my ideas come at once, and it lines them up for me. It helps identify where the gaps are.
I was talking about AI six years ago on podcasts, telling everyone it was already here, they were already interacting with it and just didn't know it. And people are just now seeing how powerful it is.
Brendon Dennewill: Absolutely. One of the biggest shifts I've seen in the last few months, even since IFA just a few months ago, is this: early this year there was a lot of fear around AI taking jobs. And that fear still exists, but it's changing. What I'm seeing now from leadership teams across the spectrum is that the intention is not to replace people with AI. It's to deploy AI to make their people better.
Sally Facinelli: More efficient. That doesn't mean more work or insane hours. More efficient means perfecting things, like anything else. You have to refine it.
Brendon Dennewill: Exactly. Work on the things only you can do as a human, that AI isn't able to do. Why wouldn't you want to focus on the more strategic and valuable work, and let AI handle the more routine tasks? If you're more on the extroverted side, spend more time with people, adding value, and let AI handle the mundane stuff.
So Sally, looking ahead: how do you think leadership and franchise growth models will evolve as businesses become more technology-driven and complex?
Sally Facinelli: I've already started seeing this, but AI is going to help franchises become more efficient while also driving more revenue growth. If you're a franchise location with a revenue ceiling of, say, half a million dollars annually, AI is going to help you find the holes, the things that are capping that growth, or identify new opportunities to push past it. A new product, a new service offering, whatever it might be.
A lot of analysis has been based on human understanding, which is valuable. But one human or a team of humans is very different from AI, which has access to an enormous amount of data. You're suddenly looking at your efficiencies under a very large microscope and seeing, "This approach worked for these companies I've never even heard of and drove massive growth. Let's apply what's relevant to our business." Accessing that kind of knowledge at scale is going to be a huge shift.
Brendon Dennewill: I totally agree. Which brings me back to something you mentioned earlier about real-time data tools. Why do you think certain leadership teams delay or postpone investing in those tools?
Sally Facinelli: It comes down to a few things, but I think fear is the biggest one. If they don't understand something, they're afraid they won't be able to keep up with it, won't be able to use it, or will look foolish. Fear of something. Then there's lack of knowledge. If you don't know what you don't know, you won't even try. And of course, cost concerns are always a factor for a lot of businesses.
Brendon Dennewill: One we hear often is that it's simply not a priority. There are other things they feel they need to address first. But in the age of AI, when having your data in a cleaner, more organized state can help you make better decisions in real time, do you think that's going to move up the priority list for franchise leadership teams who have been keeping it low?
Sally Facinelli: I think it's going to change, truly. Typically, something moves up the priority list when it becomes a major pain point. When it becomes unbearable, that's when people act. But this is one of those things that's so quantifiable. We're not talking about small percentage improvements. We're talking about major shifts in the business. How can you ignore that?
There are legacy brands, and I use that term loosely, that may shy away because they're wondering how to turn such a large ship so nimbly. But there's a lot more capability now with AI than they might think, and a lot more flexibility in how it can be implemented.
Brendon Dennewill: That reminds me of something related. For those listening who aren't familiar with the term "legacy," it typically refers to brands that have chosen to grow more deliberately and with a longer-term view, rather than focusing purely on rapid expansion. And what we see connected to this is the difference between franchise leadership teams that are proactive versus those that are reactive.
Sally Facinelli: You saw this clearly during COVID. The franchise companies that were proactive in the changes they made, rather than the reactive ones, were ultimately the ones that thrived. Not just survived: thrived. The reactive ones survived in some cases and didn't in others. But if you're proactive and you can see further down the road, if you can make changes based on what's coming rather than what's already happening, you're going to stay ahead of the game.
If you're just reacting, it's like a fire that's already burning. You have to put it out. But if you know there's a high probability of the fire starting, you can take measures to make sure it never does. That's the whole idea.
Brendon Dennewill: And even before we specialized in franchising, we were implementing CRM systems for mid-market companies across all kinds of industries. The pattern is the same everywhere. Reactive leadership teams tend to need the pain of not changing to outweigh the pain of changing before they act. And they often haven't actually quantified what it's going to cost them if they don't change. Because the bigger the brand, the more acute the problem. At 500 units, the cost of not having the right systems in place is far greater than at 200 units. And at 200 it's greater than at 40. If you have 200 franchisees who don't feel supported, who are frustrated every day because they don't have the tools to run their business profitably, that's an enormous problem.
Sally Facinelli: And what are they missing by not doing the calculation? I think people get very focused on their own lane. If your role is franchise development, your whole mindset is on bringing on new franchisees. You're not thinking about the ones you already have. But what about the franchisees you've already got? How happy are they? They don't see that keeping those franchisees happy improves and grows the entire organization, including franchise development. The happier your existing franchisees are, the easier it is to recruit new ones.
People tend to stay in their box. Here are my blinders, this is my world, and I'm not going to see how a change in one area affects everything else. That's a huge thing. They also worry about the time and effort required to launch a new technology system. They don't yet see that, yes, the rollout is going to be painful in the short term, but that pain is going to translate into time and effort saved for their entire team, and into more profitable, more efficient, better-supported franchisees.
Brendon Dennewill: And if you keep following that value chain, happy franchisees make franchise development easier too. Referrals come in. Prospective franchisees hear good things during their validation calls. It all comes back to supporting your existing franchisees. The rising tide floats all boats.
Brendon Dennewill: Sally, as we wrap up, what is one piece of advice you'd like to leave our listeners with, from your 30 years of franchise experience and your perspective on where things are headed?
Sally Facinelli: I think it's actually twofold. First: slow down to understand, whatever it is you're dealing with, whether it's implementing a new software system or changing the direction of your franchise company. Slow down to understand. Then listen to understand. Gather data, fully absorb what you're seeing.
Once you've done both of those things, you can make a thoughtful decision about where you're going next. That intentional pause also allows you to tap into your gut. We all have gut feelings that, if we paid attention to them, would lead us down the right path. So my number one advice for today: slow down to understand, listen to understand, and then decide.
Brendon Dennewill: I think that's really good advice. One of the other great things about pausing is that it gives you the chance to reflect on what you've already achieved. Too many of us get caught up in where we're going and forget how far we've come. When you look back during that pause, it often gives you the answers and the confidence to move forward.
Sally Facinelli: True. That's a great point.
Brendon Dennewill: Sally, thank you so much. It's been really great having you on. I'll be watching for your book next year, and I look forward to seeing where you land once you find the right next step.
Sally Facinelli: Thank you for having me. I appreciate it.
Brendon Dennewill: Thanks, Sally.